Gameplay: I would seperate it in different 'routes', Only with the same beginning and scenario.
Szenario: I would love to do something cyberpunk, with different computer produced Illusions.
What do you think?
(I could do the scripting btw.)
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We could do the cyberpunk-thing and write some (or all) stories inside these generated worlds, so that the reader doesn't really knows, what's real. It would give max. freedom for the artists too.
ReplyDeleteAs anon in the thread said, something needs to keep it from being rolplaying. Perhaps if one person laid the groundwork of the characters and plot, and each person filled in the details...
ReplyDeleteAs for the actual plot, it needs to be fairly simple, otherwise it will become too long. We should aim relatively low otherwise it won't be completed. I mean, look at KS. Their project was so ambitious it took 2 years to produce anything. I'm surprised they managed it at all.
So bearing that in mind, I'm not sure about a cyberpunk setting. It requires a large amount of suspension of disbelief, and I don't know if that can be done. On the other hand, if good writers are involved, it might work.
Just my 2 cents for the moment. I'll try to think of some ideas, but that's not my strong point...
I know this is disqualifying the idea, but maybe the idea of illusions and imperfections, as well as the consequences of either rejecting or accepting them, could be used as a tying theme for the VN itself (Sounds rather boring, but I'm just trying to get an idea rolling.). The protagonist and the rest of the cast essentially are comfortable and accepting of the lifestyle at first, but as the story progresses, they realize that the escapism presented to them fails to bring true emotional satisfaction [Maybe in one route for a character, who is nothing but an A.I. program, you essentially have to choose between sacrificing the real world to be able to bond with her/it or being able to live as an actual human at the cost of her love (I would like to have another character as a reason to go for that type of decision, but does that cheapen the emotional value of the decision any? Possibly as a result of multiple decisions.)
ReplyDeleteIf you would like, I'll be able to at least do writing. I don't mind writing someone else's story either.
Oh yeah, and physical transcendence can totally be the harem ending. I called it first.
IMO the best would be something that allows the writers to determine what they write and serves as red thread through the game- I thought parallel dimensions would be the mos fitting, but we could also use a Sci-Fi scenario, where the story changes according to the planet the player chooses to visit..
ReplyDeleteFirst, I think it's important to develop a solid theme and a backstory to present, one which other ideas flow out of and also one which we can take advantage of having multiple characters and writers. I think we can come up with this after brainstorming different parts.
ReplyDeleteI'll agree that generated worlds are a good idea. The idea I had was dream worlds, for lack of a better term. Supernatural metaphysical worlds that are malleable to a person's head. In general, it would be a world that works by its own rules and not ones we are traditionally bound. Additionally, manipulating these rules can also force bits of the world to obey a person's own rules. Finding out those rules can be part of the story.
I'd like to add, feel free to say you don't like certain parts. Ideas I suggest aren't neccessarily one solid chunk. It's more like a big, fat cow that you can dissect and pick out the pieces you like.
@Bob Page: Sounds like an interesting idea, I would like to see this in combination with the cyberpunk-theme.
ReplyDeleteI was that guy with the myspace in the /jp/ thread. I write and write music, and play a few instruments, so I'd like to think I'm an asset.
ReplyDeleteI'm probably not. Send me an email at thesunfiredblanks@googlemail.com, unless you've got a more interesting method of speaking to me. I also have msn, but I'd rather you emailed me for that.
>>I thought parallel dimensions would be the mos fitting, but we could also use a Sci-Fi scenario, where the story changes according to the planet the player chooses to visit..
ReplyDeleteDude, as I said, this kind of thing is pretty ambitious. However, if you can write a decent plot framework, I could help with writing. Just remember: the more elaborate your ideas, the less likely it will be finished, and the less likely the finished product will be any good.
BTW, and artfags interested? I can draw, but not nearly well enough. Coding and such won't be a problem. Renpy and onscripter are easy enough to figure out.
All ideas this far are really interesting- I think we all can agree, tat different worlds, dreams or illusions would be the right way to go- What we have to discuss is the 'true' reality now, or? I personally would like to see something cyberpunk style, but the dreams sounded good too. (Maybe a product out of both of them? The Rules would be scripts and the A.I. Bob Page talked about a program inside this matrix?)
ReplyDeleteI can draw, but I have to fix my drawing tablet first. And more artists would be better IMHO (different styles).
ReplyDeleteI would love to write the frame for this, but I didn't wanted to choose something, as others might not like this, so let's discuss this first and then choose a frame.
I have to think, why does there have to be a true reality? Let's say the space, whether it be a dream, a cyber world, or a wizard's pocket dimension, is mostly a blank slate. It's up to the people that are there to terraform it into the world they want. In a sense, the true reality would be that of a blank and untouched world.
ReplyDeleteI remember hearing a term called a self-fulfilling prophecy, or something along the lines, where ideas that are ingrained in our head winds up becoming true because we make it or believe it to be true. There are two examples I can give of this. One being a child who's always told that he has real talent as a pianist. As a result, he has great pride in playing the piano and continuously plays it, gaining experiencing and becoming a talented pianist. Another would be a doom prophet who believes the world is ending. He looks around and every disaster and misfortune reaffirms his belief that the world is ending, regardless of it just simply being a natural phenomenon or cycle.
I think I'm suggesting that a character's attitudes and actions could shape the mold of the world, rather than it being seperated into fantasy and truth.
What about having the same persons in the different worlds? They could have different roles in each world.
ReplyDelete>>anon6894
ReplyDeleteGreat idea, I'm all for it, let's do this!
"What about having the same persons in the different worlds? They could have different roles in each world."
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting idea in several ways:
One being, is this really that person? I mean this in that in a world that can change easily, they could just be scenery created by someone else.
Further with this, these projected people can also show how characters think and view each other. If someone exaggerated the negative traits of another character, it might show.
Another could be the issue of who is really real in that world.
If everyone wants to do something related to dreams, alternate worlds etc., here's a good short story with that theme. Might stimulate your imagination a bit.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/00/pwillen1/lit/cruins.htm
(Apologies for the shitty page, it was the only working copy I could find.)
I'm off to play some PCB, I'll come back a bit later. Hope you can flesh out the ideas some more.
Keeping the same characters throughout the different worlds is an interesting idea and IMO the right way to do this. Having to create a whole new set of characters for each world would probably be too much work. I'm also thinkging that the main character should be consistent across the worlds, if only for the fact that switching narrators can be pretty jarring if not done right.
ReplyDeleteI'd also recommend looking at the game Tension for some inspiration. It's made by IcePick Lodge, a russian game company that made Pathologic. RockPaperShotgun sums up the game much better than I could.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/01/26/unknown-pleasures-typrop/
Also, here's a link to a video LongPlay someone is doing. I'm not recommending anyone to watch all of it, but a few videos to take in the atmosphere.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Throdax&view=videos&start=60
I don't recommend looking for inspiration from the works of others because it might come out unoriginal or copy-like.
ReplyDeleteSince you seem to plan on using different writers then I suggest giving the same surroundings and rules to follow for every one, but a character to develop would be different for each. For example, you start as one character, you are able to make some choices as them, then at some point you get to choose to play as some other character in the game and have influence on their doings instead.
If you get this project going then I would like to participate as an artist. I'll keep an eye on this.
That would be to much work IMO as there's one big storyline that had to be discussed and every writer had to write in a clearly defined storyline, which would give little freedom--
ReplyDeleteI never read the VN, so I can't say if it is the same, but in the Higurashi anime every few episodes it would just start a new story. Wouldn't something like that be able to work out?
ReplyDeleteThat way it's the same set of characters and places (no extra work for the artists), and the writers are able to have full freedom under their own story.
I'll try to contribute on this idea of how to involve multiple characters created by different writers.
ReplyDeleteThe beginning, the reader gets to choose who they would like to play as. Like a magician choosing from the audience, who they would like to use for their stunt. The beginning and some events would repeat in each story to make them tied together. To add a little bit of 'gotta catch em all' moment to the game, some characters would start to unlock later for some reason.
There could be some sort of a mystery and every character could uncover a little bit of it, but that would probably be too much work. I wouldn't add choices inside the game.
That's not a bad idea, but whats with the artists that want to illustrate their story themself?
ReplyDeleteAs many of you have said maybe it's better that we have the same characters in all of these "worlds" it gives more freedom to the writers and if the characters are same it's easier to write about them when their personality or basic relations to other characters doesn't change(or maybe it could we would see different things about the characters like things that they don't usually show about themselves how they would react to the main character in all of these different world etc.) between these worlds.
ReplyDeleteI like the ideas of unlockable characters-
ReplyDeleteThat the beginning is the same in every story is not bad either, but as 'true world' I would like to take the idea, that the character forms the worlds, as suggested previously..
Even if the setting or characters are same, different artists can illustrate the stories because every story should have their own feeling and could be drawn in a different style to emphasize it.
ReplyDeleteHey, I'm the OP of the original /jp/ thread. I can do music and writing once the general background and scenario are decided on. I'm actually a pretty capable musician, so if you all agree with that down the road, that's another task pretty much out of the way.
ReplyDeleteAs for the scenario, I like the idea of a dream world. Somebody mentioned choosing between loving an artificial intelligence girl, while sacrificing reality or choosing reality while sacrificing potential love. That's an alright idea, and I'd like to loosely base my pitch off of that premise here, so hear me out. Instead of artificial intelligence, how about a girl in your dreams?
The protagonist is faced with the conflict of real world vs. dreams. Loving a mere figment of his imagination, he's faced with a choice of keeping his sanity at the loss of 'love', or pursuing the girl of his dreams (literally) at the potential cost of his sanity. As he slowly spirals downward through a path of drugs and self induction to make himself dream, he struggles in a fight with his own consciousness.
Of course, the choices wouldn't be in black and white like that, ie. "Welp, dream girl, or real world, kid. The choice is yours". The outcome would be decided on the choices made throughout the game, with girls in the both the real world, and possibly even multiple girls in your dreams. Bad ends would include dying, paralysis due to OD, working the rest of your life in misery, etc.
Really, I don't know how well this idea would work for what this project has in mind, as I think this particular scenario would need a long, drawn out storyline and a lot of hard work. If you guys feel up to it, I would LOVE to be a part of something that, but if not, I'd still really like to pursue this scenario I have in mind. (I'm still interested in working on this project too, however.)
If anybody wants to discuss this with me or anything, feel free to email me at Traavy@gmail.com or you can IM me on AIM at TraavyTripfag
I really like what you posted Traavy. Maybe near the end of the game or in some point's of it the line between reality and dream "world" where the protagonist spends time with his dream girl(s), could "dissappear" and the protagonist is not sure which is which.
ReplyDeleteCyberpunk? Sounds like a stupid idea.
ReplyDeleteJust throwing in that I've spoken to Traavy and he seems legit and I've said I'll work on it. More people would be nice, though, so speak to him for yourself!
ReplyDeleteJ:
ReplyDeleteThanks, man.
For a certain route, yeah, that sounds brilliant. Difficulty distinguishing between reality and dreams, maybe the protagonist starts suffering from hallucinations and delusive thinking until the real world practically becomes like a dream as well?
I feel like there are so many possibilities for the scenario that this (or a seperate project) could actually become a legitimate project.
Don't try to go for a story too linear. You should take advantage of having multiple writers if that is what you would want to do. This is - having different viewpoints and ideas on what could happen or be. Think of the things that you couldn't do with one author. It's pointless having a lot of people working on a project and making it seem like it was thought up by one person.
ReplyDelete(I forgot to add that the story doesn't even have to be about getting girls. But if that's unthinkable, then fine...)
ReplyDeleteI think that all the characters should be faced with the same problem. What makes their scenarios different are the way they see the problem and how they attempt to fix it. Their deep convictions to what is causing the problem and their own beliefs makes their worlds blur together.
ReplyDeleteI should add that this problem should be ominous and foreboding, yet not something that can be physically attacked. For example, they could be on a chain of islands that are slowly sinking into the ocean. One character could view it as a shift in the tectonic plates or a rise in the water. Another could be lead to believe a large monster is swallowing the islands whole.
A really good Idea IMO, Traavy. We could only use the main-character and the girl as fixed characters and then the story could develop around them. There are really a lot of outcomes, as a medieval world, where the girl is some kind of witch, a story where they are married, a story where the girl kills the character (or reversed). I think it shouldn't be clear how real the girl (and the worlds) is(/are) to the end. The game then ends with the conclusion, that everything is as real as you imagine it. Does anyone like this too?
ReplyDeleteAww, we've got so much good ideas here, hard to choose one.
ReplyDeleteI organized the ideas offered so far. Maybe it will be easier to grasp. Maybe it will give thoughts on how to merge some of them.
ReplyDeleteIdeas on Different worlds
- The things that happen are similar or different versions of each other.
- the story changes according to the planet the player chooses to visit
- different roles in each world
- The protagonist is faced with the conflict of real world vs. dreams. Loving a mere figment of his imagination, he's faced with a choice of keeping his sanity at the loss of 'love', or pursuing the girl of his dreams (literally) at the potential cost of his sanity.
- Difficulty distinguishing between reality and dreams,
Ideas on using Different characters
- Supernatural metaphysical worlds that are malleable to a person's head Finding out the rules to manipulate the world can be part of the story
- the true reality would be that of a blank and untouched world. a character's attitudes and actions could shape the mold of the world, rather than it being seperated into fantasy and truth.
-giving the same surroundings and rules to follow for every one, but a character to develop would be different for each writer
- you start as one character, you are able to make some choices as them, then at some point you get to choose to play as some other character in the game and have influence on their doings instead. (mentioned as too much work)
-In the beginning, the reader gets to choose who they would like to play as. The beginning and some events would repeat in each story. some characters would start to unlock later for some reason.
- different viewpoints
- There could be some sort of a mystery and every character could uncover a little bit of it
- I think that all the characters should be faced with the same problem. What makes their scenarios different are the way they see the problem and how they attempt to fix it.
Ideas on Same world, same characters.
- comfortable and accepting of the lifestyle at first, but as the story progresses, they realize that the escapism presented to them fails to bring true emotional satisfaction
- every few episodes it would just start a new story
- Parallel dimensions
Other suggestions:
-Someone sohuld write the groundwork, guidelines to stop it from becoming roleplaying.
-it's important to develop a solid theme and a backstory to present
- we need to take advantage of having multiple characters and writers
- different worlds, dreams or illusions would be the right way to go
- Having to create a whole new set of characters for each world would probably be too much work.
-maybe it's better that we have the same characters in all of these "worlds" it gives more freedom to the writers and if the characters are same it's easier to write about them when their personality or basic relations to other characters doesn't change
-Even if the setting or characters are same, different artists can illustrate the stories because every story should have their own feeling and could be drawn in a different style to emphasize it.
-Cyberpunk? Sounds like a stupid idea.
-Don't try to go for a story too linear. You should take advantage of having multiple writers if that is what you would want to do.
-the story doesn't even have to be about getting girls.
Anybody who's seriously interested in working on the project about dreams, Email me or IM me so that we can stay in contact. I'm pretty convinced that otherwise, most of you will stop visiting this blog after today and forget about it or lose interest. I'm already talking to a few people about working on it, if you want to be a part of it, please, let me know. Additionally, I'll keep visiting here and posting here to work on the other project with multiple authors. I have faith that if a lot of us work together, we can make something significant and legitimate, without a doubt.
ReplyDeleteEmail = Traavy@gmail.com
AIM = TraavyTripfag
How about this:
ReplyDeleteAccording to the choices the player makes in the short begging of the game, they will receive a character he sees illusions about. according to this, the style of the illusions will be different. Some will have weird geometrical backgrounds, some will be elegant but jet somehow weird paintings, some characters may be drawn in a more mature style, some in a childish moe style, etc. Every one of these illusion girls will have a different influence on him, it would be a mix of Traavy's idea and the idea of having multiple characters for different artists and writers to play with.
If you set up an IRC channel I might drop by and provide rudimentary coding skills.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous above me,
ReplyDeleteI'm going to set up an IRC channel up when I wake up. I haven't slept in over 24 hours now, so I can hardly even think straight right now, haha.
As of now, we have four people other than myself who are interested in being a part of the construction of this project. Writer, Background designer, and a few people who are interested in coding/scripting (who will also be helping with general ideas and writing here and there, probably). As I said earlier, I'll be working on music and writing.
I think it's a good start for now, but like I said above, anybody who's seriously interested in working on the project, Email me or IM me so that we can stay in contact. I'm pretty convinced that otherwise, most of you will stop visiting this blog after today and forget about it or lose interest. Additionally, I'll keep visiting here with updates and everything. I have faith that if we work together, with enough effort, we can make something significant and legitimate, without a doubt.
Email = Traavy@gmail.com
AIM = TraavyTripfag
I'd also like to see an irc channel setup for the multi-writer project.
ReplyDeleteOh and if possible, make it on irchighway or rizon.
ReplyDeleteJust a quick post to say I'm still up for this. My internet broke earlier so I couldn't get on. Traavy, IRC is a good idea. It will be much easier to get sorted on ideas there rather than this blog. Of course, this will still be useful in some ways. Post the channel here when you do it, thanks. I better go to sleep now...
ReplyDeleteI have issues with the mail-server, but count me in: lavetein@melvinody.de
ReplyDeleteFor those still interested in discussing this and being a part of this, I've made an IRC channel at
ReplyDeleteirc://irc.rizon.net/secretclub
I still encourage you to email me and/or contact me on AIM if you're seriously interested in working on this project, though. That way, I have a more consistent and reliable way to keep you informed with updates and what-have-you.
Email = Traavy@gmail.com
AIM = TraavyTripfag
Will there be any record of previous discussions for the people that missed them? On here or anywhere else?
ReplyDeleteWhoever is still checking up on here and on IRC, some stuff came up and I've got to go out of state for a few days, so I might not be able to get on IRC or anything for a while.
ReplyDeleteI'll try and email you when I get the chance with this info too.